tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-703672817425686916.post6066414553576423907..comments2023-11-03T09:15:38.743-04:00Comments on The Daily Hab-it: If Price could buy a win, he probably wouldArpon Basuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11896844844557916169noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-703672817425686916.post-65066607637299955402010-03-27T01:03:13.596-04:002010-03-27T01:03:13.596-04:00"Win% is a team stat, not a goalie stat. That..."Win% is a team stat, not a goalie stat. That fallacy needs to die. Any goalie analysis that looks at win record is, by definition, invalid. You're analysing the team when you do that, not the goalie." <br />AMEN! i could not agree more.<br /><br />I'm sick of hearing people say that goalies "pull off wins". Since when did hockey stop being a TEAM SPORT? When you loose, you loose as a team. In the dressing room after the loss in buffalo, I'm pretty sure they we're discussing the bad penalties, the bad man coverage/defensive positioning when those goals happened; it probably never crossed anyone's minds in that dressing room that Carey Price let them down. <br /><br />Why did the habs play so awesomely during their western road trip, but haven't really played well since? I'm sure they all planned to play well; just didn't happen. There's more to the game than simple basic stats; sport psychology being a big one. A lot of technical aspects of the game also, like body positioning, turnovers, adaptive defence VS specific teams, etc. etc. We watch games, we look at numbers, we pick our favourites. Teams watch game videos, prepare strategies, pratice special plays, to prepare for specific teams. We don't know what they are all focusing on, what they are trying to do. All we can do is watch and guess.<br /><br />All this to say that there are many variables that us spectators don't know about. In the end, yes, all we care about is the two points, and yes Halak was playing when the HABS won most of their points. <br /><br />IF you ask me, The Carey price situation was initiated by coincidence. And Got worst since; probably because of pressure, speculations, the media, and much more. He's loosing confidence in himself because of everyone around him NOT recognising that a loss is a team result. That's why he still get starts.(because the team, unlike most fans, don't blame goalies for losses. They reward players that play well; just like Price has.)<br /><br />It's also a coaching mentality to 'go with what worked' even though sometimes they don't understand why it worked. So, they'll go with Halak again. <br /><br />Don't get me wrong, I'm loving what this team has done lately. Sticking in the race without Markov in the roster was so key by the way. And i'm enjoying watching Halak play, a lot. BUT, We also have another 1st class goalie, who has so much skill, and potential.. And who, even though he can't participate in as many wins as he'd like (notice how I worded that), is playing amazingly well at the moment. (also greatly helped the team finish 1st in the conference 2 year ago). <br /><br />Halak seams to be favoured at the moment, that DOESN'T mean we should destroy Price with our comments and support. <br />WHat if halak tears a groin muscle tommorow? will all the Halak lovers think we're screwed? <br /><br />Some people also say that it's good for Carey to go through this phase. I disagree. You don't mess with a goalie's confidence. That's all it takes for the, to be on their heals instead of their toes. The theories about him jumping into the big league too quickly is also a lunatic one. He doesn't need a Re-adaptation period. He's awesome; we see it every time he plays.Pattehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05355655568261948497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-703672817425686916.post-66192934540030764922010-03-27T00:52:03.354-04:002010-03-27T00:52:03.354-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Pattehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05355655568261948497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-703672817425686916.post-56065226835520525032010-03-26T20:04:22.292-04:002010-03-26T20:04:22.292-04:00Win% is a team stat, not a goalie stat. That falla...Win% is a team stat, not a goalie stat. That fallacy needs to die. Any goalie analysis that looks at win record is, by definition, invalid. You're analysing the team when you do that, not the goalie.<br /><br />The biggest difference between the two goalies is how many goals the team scores in front of them, and that has nothing to do with the goalie.<br /><br /><br />There's nothing that actually says that if Halak had started more games he would have had more support than Price -- and that is, again, the chief difference between them. We might have Halak with more losses and Price with fewer, despite both of them playing at the same level they are now, and there might be more unjustified hand-wringing about the goaltending from meaningless projection of team results onto individual players.MathMannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-703672817425686916.post-11977203427642906512010-03-26T18:03:49.773-04:002010-03-26T18:03:49.773-04:00However you slice it it certainly appears that the...However you slice it it certainly appears that the Canadiens' place in the standings would be <i>significantly</i> different if Halak had been given the starters job in December when it first looked like it should be his.<br /><br />They might even be in first in their division for all we know.<br /><br />Does that bode well for the playoffs? Maybe... just maybe.Sliver24https://www.blogger.com/profile/18265463707412654815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-703672817425686916.post-22056072054924670372010-03-26T14:06:38.092-04:002010-03-26T14:06:38.092-04:00Please tell me what Cary Price has done to deserve...Please tell me what Cary Price has done to deserve the repeat chances that he gets? For the life of me I do not under stand it.<br /><br />Hype and achievements in lesser leagues can only get you so far. <br /><br />On the same note please explain why Halak gets denied the credit he deserves? This will be the 3rd time in 4 years that Halak as played a huge part in putting the Habs on the door steps of play-offs.<br /><br />Halak has one of the highest win percent in the league. Check this out… (Wins/GP)<br /><br /># NAME Win %<br />1 Antti Niemi 0.67<br />2 Jose Theodore 0.64<br />3 Jaroslav Halak 0.62<br />3 Evgeni Nabokov 0.61<br />5 Ilya Bryzgalov 0.61<br />6 Ryan Miller 0.60<br />7 Roberto Luongo 0.60<br />8 Semyon Varlamov 0.59<br />9 Jonathan Quick 0.59<br />10 Martin Brodeur 0.59<br />11 Craig Anderson 0.56<br />47 Carey Price 0.33HoustonHabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01116039336142552158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-703672817425686916.post-46583331795053707822010-03-25T19:39:52.477-04:002010-03-25T19:39:52.477-04:00Anonymous said...
the 2nd buffalo goal was a boun...Anonymous said... <br />the 2nd buffalo goal was a bounce that Price could not get control of just bad lady luck -<br />--<br /><br />Yes, Price has been very unlucky now for THREE YEARS HERE!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-703672817425686916.post-47626649850003182252010-03-25T19:02:50.475-04:002010-03-25T19:02:50.475-04:00Playing for your favourite goalie is complete nons...Playing for your favourite goalie is complete nonsense- the 2nd buffalo goal was a bounce that Price could not get control of just bad lady luck - you all know what happens in the goal mouth scramble small piece of ice and the guy with the pads and catcher is one person (the goalie), the team played well the rest of the night take a stupid penalty and a suprised Habs team when Buffalo woke up in the dying minutes- Very painfull to all Fans,players and Price supporters - but it was no one fault but many errors like the Titanic sinking(yikes did I say that) If Price played tonight he would probably stand on his head and Win ,Who really knows? Take the point and don't be ashamed and run with it HABS TEAM at the very least earned it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-703672817425686916.post-70898463408807706682010-03-25T17:35:04.726-04:002010-03-25T17:35:04.726-04:00n ones blaming price for last night's loss but...n ones blaming price for last night's loss but fact is in many games when halak was in nets and habs under fire as they led by a goal late halak held the fort, price has not. his goals against average is far worse. his record is terrible on wins or losses especially compared to when halak played. price's overtime and shootout record is worse as well. his saves percentage is worse. these are the only meaningful stats in this debate. FACT is you only need one goalie on the ice. scotty bowman made a comment habs shouldn't trade price. BUT when he had 2 great young goalies dryden and esposito, pollock traded esposito away. how'd that work out for the habs?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-703672817425686916.post-53032579614789580872010-03-25T17:09:10.698-04:002010-03-25T17:09:10.698-04:00No TK, you're not to blame. It was me. I hea...No TK, you're not to blame. It was me. I heard the announcer say 3 minutes and 31 seconds as O'Byrne went for his time out and then said "that's plenty of time to score" (it's American TV). I brought me back a moment to our victorious Anaheim game when we were in the same predicament and before I could return from reminiscing to reality, Buffalo let it rip past Price. I still feel guilty.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-703672817425686916.post-55619822587040790252010-03-25T16:17:49.951-04:002010-03-25T16:17:49.951-04:00We can't fantasize about what would have been ...We can't fantasize about what would have been if Halak was in last night's game, because he wasn't. Period. Price played an amazing game, we all agree with that. What I don't agree with is the notion (I hear it here and have heard it elsewhere) that the players will play better for a certain goalie than another. What kind of crap is that? So if they don't like the goalie for the night they put up their feet and kick back? That's plain lunacy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-703672817425686916.post-2325262068175203602010-03-25T16:17:33.053-04:002010-03-25T16:17:33.053-04:00Last night was my fault folks. I tested the cosmic...Last night was my fault folks. I tested the cosmic order by saying aloud, to no one in particular, that it would be great if "Price got the shutou!" I stopped myself before i let that final syllable leave my mouth, but I am afraid that it was too late. Not 30 seconds later O'Byrne took a late penalty, and well, you know the rest. <br /><br />Sorry folks, sorry Carey. Careless mistake on my part.TKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05770876682490016264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-703672817425686916.post-56602053780782758592010-03-25T16:16:35.060-04:002010-03-25T16:16:35.060-04:0042 shots, 40 saves, and picked the second star by ...42 shots, 40 saves, and picked the second star by the Buffalo media. I don't think Price is the guy to blame for that loss, whether you think Halak would have made one more save in the final two minutes or not.<br /><br />Biggest culprit last night was identified correctly by Arpon, IMHO.MathMannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-703672817425686916.post-23137214696485855142010-03-25T16:06:41.487-04:002010-03-25T16:06:41.487-04:00I think Price is on a learning curve and these los...I think Price is on a learning curve and these losing experiences are part of that. He's learning what it's like to play on a team. He's discovering that he is not the team but just a part of it. <br />There is a long term process involved in keeping the #1 goalie position and I think Price tried rushing to the front a bit and has lost his footing. This rush was promoted unfairly by management and they're also paying for it. Price will have to start from the bottom and I truly believe he will be the better goalie for it. It's a humbling experience and that is not necessarily a bad thing.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09301460673069212137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-703672817425686916.post-34162639312283594162010-03-25T15:56:54.676-04:002010-03-25T15:56:54.676-04:00It's pretty weird, and I felt bad for Price la...It's pretty weird, and I felt bad for Price last night. But y'know if we fans are almost waiting for the other shoe to drop maybe the team is on edge too. Throw away the first 57 minutes, and I have a feeling that Halak would have found a way to win that game. It's also possible that he would have let in a goal before that though, so ... I'm confused.Anvilcloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07974744042579564912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-703672817425686916.post-39133227222434368252010-03-25T15:52:54.144-04:002010-03-25T15:52:54.144-04:00It's more likely they are showing their lack o...It's more likely they are showing their lack of confidence that he will give up a soft goal on them after all their hard work in front of Price.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-703672817425686916.post-30138689737165115742010-03-25T15:11:06.478-04:002010-03-25T15:11:06.478-04:00Off the top of my head, I'd look at the varian...Off the top of my head, I'd look at the variance of goal support along home/road splits. The habs are a slightly above average team at ES at home (Jacques is pretty good with the last change) and pretty crappy on the road.<br /><br />If Price gets, say, 1000 more minutes on the road, well there is a very good chance he gets a raw deal.<br /><br />Haven't looked at thos numbers, but I have them somewhere...Olivierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18280119238261445564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-703672817425686916.post-16364383997348484462010-03-25T14:59:13.600-04:002010-03-25T14:59:13.600-04:00In the goalie analysis for December on Habseyeonth...In the goalie analysis for December on Habseyeontheprize.com, one thing that really struck me was that not only was Halak getting Chicago-level levels of goal support in that month and Price was getting worse-than-worst-in-NHL levels... but the difference was almost entirely on the power play. With Price the power play clicked for less than 5%... with Halak the number was ungodly high, over 40% IIRC.<br /><br />I'd call that a fluke, unless you think the players were worried about shorthanded goals.<br /><br />Yet somehow Price still gets blamed. Frankly, if the difference in goaltenders (with relatively small difference in real goaltending ability) causes your players to alter their game that much, you have a big, big problem. And it's not a goaltender problem.MathMannoreply@blogger.com